Competitive Team Ratings

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Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Wallyworld121212 on Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:29 am

Here you can get help or show off your competitive team.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Wallyworld121212 on Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:02 am

Here's a Trick Room team I'm beginning to work on. I need some suggestions though.


Slowbro @ Light Clay
(Relaxed) 252 DF / 252 Sp.Atk / 4 Atk
-Trick Room
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Me First

He's there to set up TR obviously. I'm not quite sure how to approach him. I like the set, but, it could use some redoing. I also need a suggestion for another Pokemon to set up TR.

Here are some sets I thought up for the team:

Shuckle @ Life Orb
(Brave) 252 Atk/ 252 DF/ 4 HP
-Power Trick
-Rock Slide
-Return
-Protect / Helping Hand


Kecleon @ Silk Scarf
(Brave) 252 Atk/ 252 Sp.DF/ 4 DF
-Fake Out
-Low Kick
-Last Resort
-XXXXXX


Torkoal @ Focus Sash
(Quiet) 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Atk/ 4 Df
-Curse / Protect
-Rock Slide / Eruption
-Fail
-Fire Blast


Leafeon @ Iron Ball
(Brave) 252 Atk/ 252 DF/ 4 HP
-Curse
-Baton Pass
-Leaf Blade
-X-Scissors
I guess I could use some more Special Attackers aswell. Feel free to make any suggestions.

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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Lieutenantmittens on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:09 am

If your going to use a cursing torkoal then I suggest using all physical moves.
Take out fire blast
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Wallyworld121212 on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:11 am

I know I should have all physical move, But, Torkoal doesn't have a lot to choose from. Any suggestions?
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Lieutenantmittens on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:13 am

Body Slam
Earthquake
Stone edge
Will-O-Wisp
Skull Bash

are also moves it could learn
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Squirrel on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:16 am

Why Low Kick on Kecleon? For Ghost types?

Torkoal with Will-O-Wisp and Curse seems like a mega, defensive wall ._.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by yytan12 on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:19 am

Me First on Slowbro is interesting, but.....awkward.

Fire Blast instead and move the 4 attack into 4 HP. Keckleon needs something......try Trick Room/Screech. Probably the last one to make Last Resort stronger.

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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Wallyworld121212 on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:21 am

Not really for Ghost Types, maybe for steels.

Yeah. I like the set for Torkoal. Thanks guys. Will-O-Wisp, Curse, Rock Slide, and Fail sound good.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Lieutenantmittens on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:39 am

KangasKhan


KangasKhan
Item: ?
Moves:
Sucker punch/Crunch
Fake Out
Outrage/shadow claw/ one of the 3 punches (fire, ice, thunder)
EarthQuake/Retun

Evs: 150 def
150 sp def
105 speed 105 atk
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by SludgeBomb on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:39 am

Wallyworld121212, you could give it (being Torkoal) Curse, Rock Slide, Will-O-Wisp/Fire Blast/Body Slam and Earthquake/Body Slam. With 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef (or SpAtk) and a Speed IV of 0 (if you do IV breeding) there won't be much your opponent could do after just two Curses and Trick Room up. A Brave or Relaxed nature would benefit Torkoal the most.
Fire Blast's huge power is fine without so many EVs in Special Attack. It's not like Torkoal has bad offensive stats either, 85 on each is fine to shoot off a Fire Blast on a Pokemon expecting something physical after Curse. But its shaky accuracy could be a small issue as the surprise will only work once and if it misses... Overheat could be just as useful, but can only be used once due to Torkoal's uninvested Special Attack.
Body Slam is probably going to help you a lot more as Water-types will be the common switch ins for Torkoal, but by paralyzing the opponent you are essentially giving it a Speed boost in Trick Room. Will-O-Wisp is useful to spread some extra damage while Cursing, although Toxic is probably the better option for wearing out your opponent while setting up. Will-O-Wisp is still great, thanks to the effect it has on the Attack stat.
Rock Slide and Earthquake give good coverage and then with Curse's Attacks boosts it won't matter that they aren't STABed.
I understand your item choice but you will probably find that Leftovers will be more useful as if Torkoal only has one HP left it won't be able to Curse so easily, maybe getting one in. If you want Focus Sash I'd advise 252 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 4 Def, with Overheat/Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Earthquake, Rock Slide and Flail. Then give it a Brave nature to Max. that Attack and put that Speed as low as possible. You could also give it Protect instead of Earthquake.

A Curse set isn't going to help much after Torkoal has 1 HP, it would have to be a special attack and Torkoal can't switch in on any moves for fear of not taking enough damage and thus making the Focus Sash deadweight.

Hope this helps you regarding Torkoal. I'll take a look at the others soon.
EDIT:
Slowbro seems good but I think if you use 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef he'll go much further as a base SpAtk of 100 will see a lot of Pokemon being badly hurt by their own Special Attacks (which are what you will find being aimed at Slowbro due to his lower SpDef). Especially since Me First increases the power by 50%. You could also give it Safeguard so the opponent can't shoot off a Toxic or Hypnosis to stop Slowbro. You could replace Reflect with Safeguard as most of your team is very Defense heavy.

Shuckle is an interesting Pokemon, and the one you have is fine. There are much better Pokemon to use in a Trick Room team, such as other slow Rock-types, but if you wish to go with Shuckle I see no need to change it. I would give it Helping Hand rather than Protect, but remember that you can only use it in double battles. Earthquake will work better than Return alongside Rock Slide.

Kecleon's moves are highly intriguing and I'd love to see them in action. Fake Out on the first turn, Low Kick and then Last Resort. Ghost-types will completely wall this set, being immune to Normal- and Fighting-type attacks. If you go with it as it is then I'd advise a Ghost- or Dark-type for your last team slot to take down any Ghost-types looking to stop you, I'd make it your special attacker. Apart from that I think Kecleon is fine for the (gimmicky) set you're aiming for. Kecleon could be your other Trick Room user but that lessens the amount of times that Last Resirt will actually be useable.

Ahhh, Leafeon. A great Pokemon indeed. Curse and Baton Pass will benefit you're entire team, which is good. I'd probably swap X-Scissor with Return for better coverage. Or even Synthesis so Leafeon can survive a lot longer.

Now for your last Pokemon. You're going to need a special attacker who can set up Trick Room and take Ghost-type attacks. Porygon2, Girafarig, Stantler and Spinda are all Normal-types who can set up Trick Room. Porygon2, Spinda and Girafarig can also use Trick to put a Choice Scarf onto another Pokemon, and thus lowering its speed significantly under Trick Room.
Porygon2 is probably the best option out of the three, with a sky-high Special Attack and nice defenses.
Trace is the better ability choice and a Quiet nature boosts that Special Attack.
I'd suggest Trick, Trick Room, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam as moves. With a Choice Scarf attached, Poyrgon2 can also benefit when Trick Room is not up, Tricking it away and then setting up Trick Room so an opponent's potential counter to Trick Room is shut down. You can, however, give it Leftovers (or even Life Orb) and Recover rather than Choice Scarf and Trick.
As for EVs, max out its HP, and split the rest into Special Attack and a defense stat. I'd advise for 120 Def and 136 SpA. Then again, if you pass a few Curse boosts onto Poyrgon2 from Leafeon, SpDef may be the better stat to invest in. It all depends on when and how you plan to use Porygon2. With a Choice Scarf, I'd say that the Def EVs are more important but if you go with Leftovers or Life Orb I would say that putting 120 SpDef EVs in rather than Def will be safer.

You could always use Haunter or Mismagius (Mismagius may be to fast but will still work very well) instead. A Quiet nature is good on both, and make sure to use Shadow Ball. Both also have access to the Trick strategy mentioned above. Good moves would be Trick, Trick Room, Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt with 252 HP / 136 SpA / 120 SpDef EVs while holding a Choice Scarf, and that's for both of them. Instead of Trick, Haunter would benefit from Substitute, Hypnosis or Sludge Bomb while Mismagius could use Calm Mind or Substitute, or even Will-O-Wisp. Both would like Focus Sash, too, which ensures that they can set up Trick Room before falling.

That seems to be all... I'd advise using Haunter or Mismagius rather than one of the Normal-types mentioned above (apart from Porygon2, that could really do well on your team).

Lieutenantmittens, I would advise something much different for your Kangaskhan. 150 Def and SpDef seems pointless and 105 Speed and Attack won't be helping all that much. Kangaskhan is meant to get in there and destroy everything, not survive for as long as possible. Especially when looking at the moves you have chosen. Also Shadow Claw and Crunch are not necessary if you use Scrappy as her ability. I would advise a Jolly nature with 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe. As for moves give it Fake Out, Return, Low Kick and Sucker Punch (to hurt those that are faster) or Earthquake. A Life Orb will really hurt any Pokemon taking Kangaskhan's attacks, but Expert Belt or even Choice Band are decent choices.
If you want a Kangaskhan that can take hits it will probably be better to use different moves, but Kangaskhan doesn't have many options.
Hopefully that helps.

tl;dr...
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Squirrel on Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:07 pm

I'll just have to take some of those ideas from you Sludge =P I actually never thought of using Trick/Trick Room together but they seem like it would work nicely.

You better watch out for Taunters with that Slowking. Ones it's Taunted, it's game over for you. Also, for Kecleon, have you thought about something like Shadow Claw? So you're not walled up by Ghost-Types like Sludge said.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by SludgeBomb on Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:32 pm

Squirrel wrote:I'll just have to take some of those ideas from you Sludge =P I actually never thought of using Trick/Trick Room together but they seem like it would work nicely.

You better watch out for Taunters with that Slowking. Ones it's Taunted, it's game over for you. Also, for Kecleon, have you thought about something like Shadow Claw? So you're not walled up by Ghost-Types like Sludge said.

There was a problem I noticed and that was that Trick Room ALWAYS goes last, which means that even with a Choice Scarf it won't be set up before the opponent can stop you. But still, the Trick/Trick Room combo can work by first using Trick and then Trick Room, easy way to shut down a counter!

That's something I didn't pick up on, thanks Squirrel. That's why Surf or Psychic is probably the easier option over Me First, but if it works out it could be a very interesting thing to see.
As for Shadow Claw, that is a very good idea however it means that it has to be used before Kecleon can use Last Resort, and that's everytime it switches in. I suppose its the same deal as Low Kick. But I agree, putting Shadow Claw in there will definately help Kecleon out.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Wallyworld121212 on Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:21 pm

Thanks to the both of you! I wish I could put as much thought into my response as you both did in yours. Thank you both a bunch. I'm taking your every bit of your help into thought right now. . . That Trick / TR combo will work very nicely! You two were both helpful. I'd give you both a cookie if I could. I'll post a video of the Team in the Youtube secition once i'm finished. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by SludgeBomb on Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:40 pm

You're very welcome, I love helping out whenever I can. And I look forward to seeing the team.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Lieutenantmittens on Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:29 pm

Thanks sludge
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by SludgeBomb on Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:47 pm

You're also welcome. You could also use an Adamant nature on the Kangaskhan as Fake Out and Sucker Punch are both priority moves and the Steel- and Rock-types that will be hit by Low Kick are usually slow.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by yytan12 on Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:27 pm

A resonably competitive-ish team I have given thought to, but not really worked on. BTW, It's a doubles team. I'm probably going to end up using this on PO:

The team is ability negation with gimmicky users:


Monmen @ Evolution Stone
252 HP 152 SpDefence 100 Def
Ability: Teasing Heart
Nature: Calm
~Worry Seed
~Helping Hand
~Leech Seed
~Cotton Guard
Monmen. I was attracted to this pokemon as soon as I saw it, though I didn't understand it's ability till I saw it in use. It truely makes this team...hilarious to battle....and annoying of course. The magic of this set comes from two moves: Worry Seed and Helping Hand. Worry Seed to negate the next pokemon's ability, and helping hand to power it up even more....Next, we have...


Archeos @ Focus Sash
252 Attack 252 Speed
Ability: Weak-Kneed
Nature: Jolly
~Rock Slide
~Earthquake
~Aerial Ace
~Crunch
Archeos. With fantastic sweeping stats such as a base 140 attack and a base 110 speed SCREAM 'OU OU OU OU'. There's just one thing holding it back...it's ability. As soon as archeos' stellar attack and special attack stats are sliced in half, rendering it useless. Here is where monmen's magic is added: MH/TH Worry Seed turns archeos piss-poor ability into Insomnia. Now archeos is fully free to beat **** up, and this is what this set is intended to do Very Happy

Think THAT's gimmicky? It get's better...


Golduck @ Leftovers
252 HP 152 Def 100 SpA
Ability: Cloud Nine
Nautre: Bold
~Worry Seed
~Hydro Pump
~Ice Beam
~Focus Blast
For some odd reason, Golduck has the ability to create a seed of worry and fling it at the opponent. Oh well, it does the job. It worry seed's its partner, then gets sweeping/walling. That's just about it....unless...Nope, no real magic XD

More added when I get to it...


Last edited by yytan12 on Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:44 am; edited 4 times in total

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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Wallyworld121212 on Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:38 pm

I'm not to familiar with any of the 5th gen Pokemon, but, this looks like an really interesting strategy. If you it pull off, this will sweep teams. I would go ahead and try it.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Squirrel on Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:14 pm

Monmen and Archeos will rein terror on any team with those sets. Although instead of Memento, I would suggest Protect. Or else if you use Earthquake, Monmen is gonna get hurt. Or you can make a mega, defensive wall with Cotton Guard. That moves raises your Defense by 3 stages and with an Evolution Stone and Leech Seed, it seriously gonna be hard to take down.

Theres just one problem with Golduck. ONLY moves learned in Gen V can be used in Gen V Wi-Fi battling. That means moves learn from tutors or old TM's won't work. So in other words, the set on Golduck is illegal.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by yytan12 on Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:15 pm

Cotton Guard is better than memento (MWAHAHAHHAHAHAHA). I'll change it.

This team is for pokemon online. No 5th gen online shtii.

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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by SludgeBomb on Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:01 pm

You can get a Golduck from HG/SS or wherever and teach it those moves before transferring it onto B/W, can't you? I don't know much about 5th gen yet...

If this actually works then it will be amazing. However, I know Worry Seed doesn't work on Pokemon with Truant or Multitype so I wonder if the same is true for Archeos' ability...

Also you're missing out on a few EVs. Golduck can have 104 SpA. Give Archeos 4 HP and Monmen can have 4 more Def or SpDef EVs.

EDIT: Now I know you don't need to know this but I had to look it up. Turns out that moves Pokemon could previously learn through TMs and Tutors are banned in the 5th gen DS games, but only for random Wi-Fi. Apparently friend battles on the DS allow all moves. This means that the 'stadium' game will probably ban them too...
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Squirrel on Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:49 pm

SludgeBomb wrote: EDIT: Now I know you don't need to know this but I had to look it up. Turns out that moves Pokemon could previously learn through TMs and Tutors are banned in the 5th gen DS games, but only for random Wi-Fi. Apparently friend battles on the DS allow all moves. This means that the 'stadium' game will probably ban them too...

Hahah. Yup. I forgot to add that part. So most of of the strategies that people came up on H/G will be useless on random battles with B/W and the future "Staduim" game. Although it can still work on with Friend Battles.

Also, wouldn't Archeos benefit more from something like Ariel Ace instead of Dragon Claw? I dont know much about Competitive play, even though this team seems more Noncompetitive, but since it Archeos gets STAB from it, it just seems like the logical thing for me. And Dragon Claw is only Super-Affective againts Dragon Types while Ariel Ace is strong against Grass/Bug-Types and neither Monmen nor Archeos has something that can do against them. Unless you count Crunch... which is still kinda iffy.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by SludgeBomb on Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:46 pm

Yeah, like Houndoom loses Dark Pulse making a Nasty Plot set almost pointless while Shiftry can't use Seed Bomb or Sucker Punch so there goes Swords Dance options...

Drago Claw has nice neutral coverage however Rock Slide and Earthquake hit everything for at least neutral damage except Flygon, Claydol (Crunch), Bronzong (with Levitate, again Crunch), Breloom, Virizion and Torterra. A STABed Aerial Ace would do more than Dragon Claw to all of these Pokemon.
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by Squirrel on Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:57 pm

Spelling fail of the night!
Ariel Ace =/= Aerial Ace

So is Aerial Ace or Dragon Claw more beneficial when it comes to Competitive Play...? (I feel like such a noob for asking)
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Re: Competitive Team Ratings

Post by SludgeBomb on Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:06 pm

Aerial Ace would be. STAB basically raises its poor base power to 90 rather than 60 whereas Dragon Claw will sit at 80. Dragon Claw would only help against Flygon but Crunch and Aerial Ace both hit Flygon for neutral damage.
Plus Virizion would be able to come in and take Rock Slide, Earthquake and Crunch while Aerial Ace hits it for 4x the usual damage, plus STAB making Aerial Ace's base power 360... Basically, Aerial Ace is without a doubt the better option.
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